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OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:25 am
by Leonardo
Today, OpenMW (official username) posted an update for OpenMW on here and this is the first time I heard that some people in the OpenMW project have decided to use Patreon.

One more thing: one of our major contributors, Capostrophic, has recently started a Patreon. AnyOldName3, our resident Master of Shadows, and psi29a, OpenMW’s new project lead, are also on Patreon. So consider supporting them if you want to help OpenMW grow. Other contributors accept donations as well: you can find links to their Patreon pages in our FAQ. Don’t forget to support the software that helps make this all possible: OpenSceneGraph, OpenAL-Soft and SDL2 to name a few.



After I read this I started to be less interested in OpenMW and right now I don't know for sure if I ever will try OpenMW in the future.  Probably never.

My reason for that is about what I said here.

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:55 am
by dietbob196045
Never used or had desire to use said....    If it is a good engine, then instead of looking for community support, maybe they need to look at corporate support... you know a "sponsor"  .... just a thought

Personally I would never pay for a mod or "new way" for playing or modding morrowind since it's are nearly 20 yrs old, if it were usable in more recent and upcoming games maybe I would just to see what it does....of course price point would matter...

Enjoy
Dietbob

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:19 am
by deaths_soul
I really don't see the issue, many open source projects ask for monetary support. Being open source, anyone can build a copy of it. The GPL doesn't prohibit selling the builds, just prohibits restricting the source code. If they were to restrict the builds, then, more than likely, someone would rebuild the source code and/or fork it.

However, the majority of GPL licensed projects don't restrict the binaries at all even though they accept financial support. Even GIMP does this, as does GNOME. /shrug

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:15 am
by Leonardo
Maybe you don't see the issue, but I do see the real issue and that's once one start to use Patreon or PayPal then other people will likely do the same.  See what happen in the Skyrim modding community and that's related to failed paid mods concept Valve and Bethesda did in April 2015.

http://web.archive.org/web/202002170204 ... paid-mods/

Note, I know there are other threads posted about the paid mods concept, but I couldn't find them so you need to find them yourself by clicking on the "New thread" link around 200 posts or so.  Don't forget to use the Wayback Machine if necessary.


From my point of view, the Morrowind modding community has until now recently been free for such tendencies, but with what had happen in the OpenMW project lately things have started to change the community from within in a direction I don't like one bit.  That's my primarily concern of why I really wish money shouldn't be a factor when it comes to modding, because like what I have stated in the past money has nothing to do with modding since modding is a hobby.

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:04 am
by dietbob196045
I am split on both opinions

As I said I have never had a reason to use OpenMW nor will I ever (most likely)

OpenMW from my understanding is not a Mod but a new Engine to build mods with, so back to my first thought...get a sponser, if you feel your engine is going to be better
then prove it to someone with gobs of money and let them make the investment

If the morrowind modding community in general is leaning towards "pay me" for my work... good luck...non modders may,  if the mod is really good.... other modders probably not.  I'm sure there will be plenty of non-pay mods available in the future

When Bethesda gave us the CS they didn't do it for others to make money off of there own game, they had the foresight to know that other people where just as good if not better then they are and would create great things with this tool....giving the game a unending stream of new players, and the reviving of old players who get a new spark of interest.   it's good business

Yes Modding is a hobby, I've devoted 40 years to making stuff, (MY TSR days were all on paper of course) but the point being I enjoy doing this stuff and would never ask someone to donate to my cause.... to each his/her own

Enjoy
Dietbob

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm
by Tes96
My personal opinion; donating money to the individuals of OpenMW might help them pay their bills for the month so they don't have to work overtime at their job and stress. It might help them get groceries. Extra money might give them a peace of mind knowing they have another source of income, even if it's small, which in turn, could allow them to spend more creative time developing OpenMW, instead of stressing so much about money, etc... The extra money could go towards updating their computer hardware. Lots of people frown upon donations for modding but I see it as helping the individual's personal life, which is where modding and programming occurs (in their personal life).

When I start making good money I'd like to help out with donations, for OpenMW and Morrowind Modding Showcases.
Just my two septims.

Re: OpenMW and Patreon is now, sadly, true.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:19 am
by Turelek
I do think donating has its uses, especially towards larger projects such as OpenMW. For many reasons Tes96 listed, such as not working overtime or helping get some groceries. Perhaps adding a button every other paragraph is a bit far (nobody does this as far as I can tell), but I can see why the proliferation of donation buttons can cause worry. Especially in the wake of the infamous 2015 incident and the current Creator's Club deal with Bethesda games. All of this is pretty damning about how much money is flying around the internet, especially for causes that 10-20 years ago where it would've been gauche to mention. Imagine if Grumpy had asked for donations for the Companion Project or if it was listed at $1.00 on the Steam Workshop. Woooii.

That being said, there is also a lot more internet infrastructure for setting up donations, and many online companies that are seen as acceptable to do so. So, setting up a system for donations may be less arcane than it used to be. Instead of configuring widgets like PayPal, now you can just drop a link! On a somewhat related note, there's an increasing amount of artists (may they be from a university or a pastime) who in many aspects who struggle with serious compensation for their work. Of course these two factors will intersect and those who may feel more passionate about their art (or mods in this case!) will want to pursue a way to generate passive income on it. Maybe even strike it real big and turn it into a job.

This isn't to say those who don't ask for donations aren't passionate about modding, personally I love it and I know many people on this forum do too, but I think people like us may be approaching this from a different angle. I've noticed a lot of newer Morrowind modders come from backgrounds related to visual arts, some even maintain online portfolios. The plethora of hyper-detailed PBR models on Morrowind Nexus can vouch for me (I'll know I have good money when I have a machine to run those!) But I do notice a theme where older modders seem to have adapted to modding (e.g: we've modded on all sorts of different platforms, digital or not, and maybe looked at modding as a pastime rather than something related to our choice of industry - or I'm just projecting). These other modders, may they be coders or modelers, may be looking at their mod as a way into the industry. Regardless of whether they want to work for Bethesda or not. As such, the dedication and time it takes may be viewed more seriously by these types of folks. It's human to want some sort of compensation for that work, especially where solely recognition may not cut it.

In any event, I will spare everyone the part where I go off about the part where "branding" and online individualism might come into play, but I will keep things succinct and just say it's a personal choice to ask for donations, and another one to give. This is true for all donations, may they be for Morrowind Modding History's continued existence, or the next OpenMW update. Once, I did come across a mod for a different game where the modder locked a mod behind a paywall though. Coercive donations is a whole different story for me. That also seems to be where the anxiety over Patreon and Morrowind comes from if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, and, I think Morrowind Modding Showcases is the exception to everything I wrote about (and there are many). I believe DarkElfGuy is a Classicist but I may be off. I was mostly going for modders (which DarkElfGuy is, but his YouTube series is very far-reaching).