The Infamous Eruption

[Elaura]

There was no topic change, DS.  I mentioned I thought it was lame in the first post.  I do think it's a lame idea, but MorrowDreamer and I were discussing how it could have at least been fleshed out some.

[MSam undefined]

I hated that. It almost seemed spiteful. Like someone inside the company was like "Ugh, get the fuck over Morrowind."

The chain of events was just devastating but veered on unrealistic. The moon fell and destroyed ALL of Vivec? Go fuck yourself, the moon was like a third of the size of the High Fane, there's no WAY the impact annhilated the entire city. So that caused a volcanic eruption - I can see most of Vvardenfell being uninhabitable, but then those bitch Nords and Argonians invaded. I hated how not just Vvardenfell was destroyed, but the elves were apparently pushed out of the mainland also. So stupid.

I wrote a really long post on this once upon a time but then I lost it. So that angry statement will have to do.  

[Antiscamp]

I think the eruption, the destruction and the diaspora is actually quite intriguing. Seeing the descendant of the Great House Hlaalu living a sad life as a simple farmer outside Windhelm almost brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it, when you remember what power they commanded back in Morrowind?

I don't think we need to panic though. I think the Greatness of Morrowind will be restored in the future.

[sassman]

I suspect that the whole subject will eventually be retconned--to be an exaggeration on the part of the people in Skyrim who are discussing it.

In 1980, Mt. Saint Helens erupted in a massive lateral blast that sheared hundreds of feet off of the mountain top and laid waste to an area half again the size of the island of Vvardenfell--but only an area on one side of the mountain.  Now, if Red Mountain did something like that, and, say, blasted it's ash toward Solsteim and Skyrim, the people there might believe that Morrowind was utterly destroyed, leaving only the southern part inhabitable.  In truth, everything on the opposite side of the mountain except what got hit by lava flows and mudslides would be fine.

As for the Ministry of Truth...if it returned to it's original course, WITH its original momentum, it would have more than enough energy to blast a massive crater that would annihilate Vivic from the palace to the Foreign Quarter, and probably take out most of Ebonheart with it.  If not, it would simply drop out of the sky and crack into the High Fane, and there you would have it: one cracked canton, one collapsed temple, and one busted rock lying in the waters of Vivic.  Rather...underwhelming, IMHO.  And hardly enough of a seismic jolt to slosh the lava in the nearby Sixth House bases.

Clearly, Morrowind still exists, including it's infamous volcano--the evidence is right there in the Skyrim landscape itself.  As for what happened to the Dunmer...it's a good bet that the people of Skyrim don't actually know the truth of that matter.

[Gnomey]

An old thread, but as I have something to say on the matter...

Basically, it was Vivec's fault. He stopped the moon from hitting Vivec, but only for as long as he was a god. As soon as he was no longer worshiped, it would continue on its path, with its original momentum, causing large-scale destruction. It turned Vivec into a crater and set off Red Mountain, which erupted resulting in the Red Year. The information is provided in the Elderscrolls novels, but the event was probably already roughly planned at the time of Morrowind, so its not as though the author just made it all up himself. As I haven't read the novels, I don't know the particulars, but that is how I understand the event to have occurred.

Apparently, the eruption did destroy most of "Morrowind's" cities, which I will admit sounds rather odd, but it seems that most of the damage caused by the volcano was in the form of ash and lava. Perhaps the cities were simply buried under ash? From what is said, I'd think that most of the destruction on the Mainland would have been wrought by the Argonian invasion, coming as it did in a time when Morrowind was weakened first by the termination of the Tribunal, then by civil war, then by the Oblivion crisis, and then by the moon's destruction.

I think the reason I don't particularly mind the development is because it sort of fits the Dunmer. They have always lived in adversity, and a "happily ever after" ending would have done more damage to their identity than mass destruction, in my opinion. In Skyrim, it is suggested that at least some parts of Morrowind remained inhabited, with, I believe, a Dunmer contemplating going back. The geography of Vvardenfell and parts of the mainland was probably heavily altered, but for the most part things would just be greyer. Again. What Ashlanders survived might spread out a little again, new Houses would emerge, Morrowind's endemic, resilient creatures and flora would continue to exist and, perhaps, thrive. Its warriors would again start to roam the wastes, fighting the monsters that have always plagued the province.

The result of the changes are largely yet to be seen, but the settlement of Solstheim and creation of new Houses are two ideas with a lot of potential, for better or worse. Vvardenfell might also end up being closer to how it was originally planned as being: a volcanic island with little green that is barely inhabited/inhabitable. Vvardenfell probably only turned out as green and inhabited as it did in Morrowind because the developers, who had originally planned to make the whole province, limited themselves to just the island, and basically condensed the whole province into that island. There were also engine limitations in Morrowind's time that no longer exist.

The way I see it, Vivec was basically giving his people the choice between a strong, relatively unified and stable Morrowind under the Tribunal or the original, scattered, ancestor-worshiping, pre-Tribunal culture. Whether simply undoing all of his work out of spite or because he thought it would, in the end, be the best for his people is really up to how you see Vivec. As I see it, Vivec saw his whole godhood as an experiment, and, during and after the events of Morrowind, as a failed experiment at that. He had made a bet with the Daedra who had been worshiped before, and lost, and so he returned Morrowind to them more or less as he had gotten it.

Edit: Hm, nothing like popping up after a long absence to make a long post in an old thread while nobody is looking. I almost forgot: hello everybody. I'm almost through with school, and continue to be available via pm, in case my presence is desired or someone feels like playing around with the Iggerty Province files or something.

[Wolf undefined]

Gnomey Gnomes!!!

I find it aggravating that bethesda didn't come up with any sort of full official explanation.  I was assuming there would be a book or something in Skyrim, but no.  They also tend to contradict themselves too often.  This is one piece of lore I'm going to try to avoid thinking about until Beth comes up with a game or expansion set in Morrowind.  I believe you can go there in TES:O.

[No One]

I think the eruption, the destruction and the diaspora is actually quite intriguing. Seeing the descendant of the Great House Hlaalu living a sad life as a simple farmer outside Windhelm almost brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it, when you remember what power they commanded back in Morrowind?

I don't think we need to panic though. I think the Greatness of Morrowind will be restored in the future.

Talking about Morrowind families and houses in Skyrim, how about the College Dark Elf student Brelyna Maryon? http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Brelyna_Maryon
Her last name seemed familiar, so I looked up on the wiki Maryon and Morrowind and came up with this...
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Felen_Maryon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Milar_Maryon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Irna_Maryon

Maybe one of these people is her father/grandfather/mother/grandmother, but they all are probably her ancestors.

Oh, and hi Gnomey! Long time no see!

[Letrune]

I believe that a volcano eruption does not makes it uninhabitable, but more like a bigger ashlands than usually.... Uninhabitable due being not that lush and probably due the war and the aftermath of it. So in my opinion, Vvanderfell is still being, even if not that glorious as it was.

[Illuminiel]

An old thread, but as I have something to say on the matter...

Basically, it was Vivec's fault.

I almost agree - however I believe it was the Nerevarine - either the Nerevarine killed Vivec - causing the disruption to the Moon or Vivec followed the Nerevarine to Akavir for reasons still unknown -

Ultimately the blame rests with Azura who created this whole mess in the first place pitting the Chimer against the Dwemer to satisfy her thirst for revenge on the Dwemer. Poor Voryn just got caught up in it all and really had the right idea of trying to save Morrowind, but was too tainted to do it properly - manipulating the Nerevarine into breaking the heart was either incredible foolishness on Azura's part or once again she was too blinded by the idea of revenge - this time on the Tribunal that she/he couldn't see the consequences

So in summary I think the explosion was caused by the actions of the Nerevarine - but that he/she had been manipulated into that course of action by Azura

[No One]

An old thread, but as I have something to say on the matter...

Basically, it was Vivec's fault.

I almost agree - however I believe it was the Nerevarine - either the Nerevarine killed Vivec - causing the disruption to the Moon or Vivec followed the Nerevarine to Akavir for reasons still unknown -

Ultimately the blame rests with Azura who created this whole mess in the first place pitting the Chimer against the Dwemer to satisfy her thirst for revenge on the Dwemer. Poor Voryn just got caught up in it all and really had the right idea of trying to save Morrowind, but was too tainted to do it properly - manipulating the Nerevarine into breaking the heart was either incredible foolishness on Azura's part or once again she was too blinded by the idea of revenge - this time on the Tribunal that she/he couldn't see the consequences

So in summary I think the explosion was caused by the actions of the Nerevarine - but that he/she had been manipulated into that course of action by Azura

If we are going to be pointing fingers... let's just blame Lorkhan for building the stupid heart in the first place! Thus, we wouldn't have stupid, power-hungry, racist madmen like Dagoth Ur running amok and trying to take over the world with his giant automaton, and thus the Nerevarine wouldn't have had to kill the Heart, thus Azura would not need to get revenge...

[Gnomey]

Well, it's his actual heart. He didn't really build it. You could blame him for being born, of course, or you could blame the fellows who ripped it out in the first place. Generally it's easiest to blame Mehrunes Dagon for everything...

[Chazz of Blades]

Or we could just do the Nord thing and blame it on elves.

[Deathstalker13 OK]

But I thought that we were trying to avoid blaming the Elves.

I blame the Sload. Go ahead, oh God of Lore, inform me of why I am wrong.

[Chazz of Blades]

- The Sload

[Wolf undefined]

- The Sload

What's wrong with you?
What's wrong with people who make music videos?

[Melchior Dahrk ...indomitable will might rid Morrowind of all its ills.]

I'm with Gnomey here. Your points about the Dunmer not needing a "happy" ending, living in adversity, and Vvardenfell being designed the way it is was a result of "condensing" the province are perfect.

In my opinion, Vvardenfell was not dangerous and gritty enough. Don't get me wrong, I love Morrowind. But I feel that the Bitter Coast, Ascadian Isles, West Gash and such felt out of place when the entire province (and ESPECIALLY Vvardenfell) is described as being desolate and people walk around with masks and head wraps to avoid the deadly ash storms. And honestly, some really cool stuff can be done with this. Have you guys read MK's Loveletter? I mean there's some cool stuff tossed around in there regarding this: Salt merchants, bat-tigers, Nine times Nine Thrones (suggesting some serious division, but potentially some unity as well, which is fitting for the Dunmer), new houses (House Sul, House Jaroon - as you mentioned Gnomey), people living underground (nice Fallout, apocolyptic type setting which I find intriguing in the Elder Scrolls setting).

I mean, maybe it sounds silly, but this whole thing gets me excited about the future of Morrowind. Dunmer live for adversity. They decided to settle in the most dangerous location Tamriel had to offer. They can take this. The Argonians attacking is a mild setback which'll be dealt with once the Dunmer get back to their feet. The Dark Elves are going to kick some argonion tails and become even more bad ass then they were before!

Also, let's remember something. Red Mountain isn't JUST a really big volcano. It's one of the mythic Towers. Red Tower. And it's Stone (Heart of Lorkhan, heart of the world) got destroyed; as we've seen in other games, this has unknown effects on the Tower, but it can't help its stability. We can't be sure what mythic powers Red Mountain holds or which stem from it. Blowing up an island and spreading ash even farther? I think that's a possibility.

And to get to a different point that I saw mentioned by someone, who's to say that those Dwemer ruins are even gone? The Dwemer were amazing architects and masters of material sciences. I'd say it's possible that a lot of the Dwemer ruins held out against the eruption. Now did the Red mountain facilities survive? I'd say it's possible. Perhaps the surface installations were toppled and marred, but the deep sections may have survived the explosion. I envision the ground crumbling beneath them and lava exploding against their sides but many of the towers holding fast unless left with absolutely no foundation whatsoever. But we will have to see.

And to your point about Azura and the Nerevarine Illuminiel. I agree with you that the Nerevarine was manipulated by her. Though I believe that she has much deeper and darker motives than just revenge. I've done research and written about it for my mod; but it's all just speculation for now. But we should remember the words of Mark Nelson: "Some people think of Azura as a "good" Daedra. That could end up being a very dangerous misconception in the Elder Scrolls world."

Thank you and good morning

[sassman]

Hmmm...

Personally, I think that we, the Morrowind Modding Community, need to get together and make a stand!

Change the ending of Morrowind!  Break the Dragon!  And let's ret-con Skyrim right out of existence!

Esp. since my current comp won't run it....  

[Melchior Dahrk ...indomitable will might rid Morrowind of all its ills.]

Well, technically that has already been done

[sassman]

Well, technically that has already been done

Aaah, but that still leaves Sotha Sil dead, and Almalexia a psycho murdering bi*ch....

I wanna nice happy ending that saves everybody, and leaves Morrowind a lush, green paradise covered with flowers!

    ... now THAT ... would be suitably lore-breaking!      

[Melchior Dahrk ...indomitable will might rid Morrowind of all its ills.]

Hmmm... so with a dragon break being discussed... I guess then we play through Great House Dagoth. Subjugate Dagoth Ur. Use the tools on the heart; causing a dragon break which we then use to reset history on a path where Almalexia never went insane. Therefore Sotha Sil never died. And while we're at it, we'll pull a Talos and turn Morrowind into a lush amusement park.

Does that sound better sass?

However,

You can keep your utopian future of dancing bananas; I'll stick with my dystopian deadlands. And since we're both simply Tamrielans who achieved CHIM, we can both maintain alternate universes within our psyches. Redact that Bethesda!

[sassman]

Hmmm... so with a dragon break being discussed... I guess then we play through Great House Dagoth. Subjugate Dagoth Ur. Use the tools on the heart; causing a dragon break which we then use to reset history on a path where Almalexia never went insane. Therefore Sotha Sil never died. And while we're at it, we'll pull a Talos and turn Morrowind into a lush amusement park.

Does that sound better sass?

Naw...I'm gonna play House Dagoth, all right, but...instead of bringing that Lich's bracelet back to Almalexia...I was thinking of taking it to Yagrum Bagarn in Tel Fyr and have it activated FIRST!  THEN...I can run through Trainwiz's Sotha Sil Expanded, where I can warn old Sotha about Almalexia's plan to hunt him down.....

And that's just the TIP of my devious little iceberg!  By the time I'm done with that mod, I'll even need to record my own cinematics, it'll be so epic!  (Oh, and TES:6 will be out, no doubt, but...well, what do ya do?)

Redact that Bethesda!

Yeah, BABY!

[Shaddow undefined]

People have seem to forgotten that when the Ministry of Truth crashed into the city of Vivec (which was only mentioned by one poster so far)... it hit at the same velocity it would have hit if Vivec had not stopped it. Everyone is getting worked up thinking that the Volcano destroyed everything when it was the Volcano + the Ministry of truth And not to mention the fact that Vvardenfell is only what.. 6.7 square miles big? Why are a few people here also saying everyone is extinct now... that is far from the truth!! Solsthiem was flooded with people fleeing Vvardenfell after the innitial damage caused from the Ministry of Truth falling.

Crap plot with no logical thought behind it? It makes at least as much sense as anything else (Levitation Act?). Besides, it's a FANTASY world!!

DeathStalker13's post made a pretty good point on what the after effects might be: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4880#p83683

Gnomey also made an awesome post you guys should read: posting.php?mode=reply&f=33&t=4880#pr86876

[Raym]

I *still* think it blatantly stinks of "let's get rid of TES 3 for good", as Elaura said.

I mean... they could have done it in a more subtle way.
Funboy-ism aside, it looks to me that quality of writing at Beth is getting worse over time. But then, maybe is we player that are growing more refined and demanding.

Also, if there has been an invasion following these events, I would have expected to see even more racial tension rising. Haven't played Skyrim yet (don't know if I ever will), but from what I've heard/read there's no trace of it, actually.

[Xar]

It's Bethesda's game, and Bethesda's story. I think they can do whatever they want with it. Realistic or not. It's theirs. If they decided to have a flock of demon monkey's fly in and obliterate the whole land with toxic farts, they'd have every right to. It's their lore.

[Elaura]

And if they did, there would be a helluva lot more threads like this one.

The fact is, I, personally, don't like it and as a result of not liking how they handled this and many other aspects of lore and gameplay, I have not bought Skyrim and don't intend to.  Bethesda is certainly entitled to make "their game" any way they want to, but that does mean that their consumer base has shrunk by at least one.  I agree with Raym that there appears to be a formulaic approach to the TES series which is becoming boring to me.  Although I would like to say it's because I was ten years younger and my tastes have changes since MW was released, there really isn't much difference between my tastes and sophistication at 32 compared to 42.  Hopefully, with enough attention to this sort of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" behavior in the entertainment industry, we'll see a reversal of the trend of catering to the simple, cut-and-dried formula of using a Natural Disaster or parallel universe to remove some inconvenient aspect of a story . . . like an entire landmass.

Just a reminder, threads created for discussion of opinion are just that.  They are not intended to be soap boxes upon which to stand and scream "I'm right and you're wrong!"  or "Bethesda is right and everyone else is wrong!"  Thank you.