Hearthfire

[Maiqdabomb undefined]

How cute. Bethesda is trying to bring popular mods to the console. Hearthfire is a DLC that allows you to buy property, build a house, move your spouse in and adopt children. Whoop de-frickin' do. I'm sure they'll charge $10 more than modders charge. But hey, the consequences of playing on a console, eh?

[Rammajamma undefined]

Hey look, Bethesda is actually implementing something from the video showcasing what they might do and you're complaining. How cute.

[Maiqdabomb undefined]

You're kidding right? This is horse armor part 2. It's already been done on PC, and Bethesda is just trying to make money off it. Seriously, why is everyone acting like this is such a revolutionary thing?

[silver_fox_rival undefined]

Why having this as DLC on a console so bad anyways?

[Elaura]

I think the point Maiq is trying to make is that Bethesda is now charging console users for what modders do on PC for free.

[silver_fox_rival undefined]

I think the point Maiq is trying to make is that Bethesda is now charging console users for what modders do on PC for free.

If that's the case, then they are showing what they truly think about modder's then.

Meaning we should be paid for our hard work on a game that we know and love so much.

[Maiqdabomb undefined]

That's what I meant, Elaura, thank you.

[Jac Making my way back]

That's why I like the PC platform: I can modify most of my games anyway I want. I couldn't do that on a console. Anyway, if people want to buy this DLC, more power to them. I'm just glad that I have a PC.  

[No One]

How cute. Bethesda is trying to bring popular mods to the console. Hearthfire is a DLC that allows you to buy property, build a house, move your spouse in and adopt children. Whoop de-frickin' do. I'm sure they'll charge $10 more than modders charge. But hey, the consequences of playing on a console, eh?

It's actually only $5 more than modders charge but yeah I see your point. I have dual feelings about this, first I like it for the 360 and PS3 just because it does bring some extra interesting household things to do in Skyrim, like build a household (more or less) your way; however, because of the focus on the house and children, I think (almost hope) that it will bomb on PC, mods already let you do this sort of thing in the game. I would personally have some more Dawnguard-esque or the Shivering Isles-esque expansions rather than just The Sims: Skyrim version.

[Wolf undefined]

I'm split on this one.  I quite like the idea of building your own home.  I love house mods and the vanilla house's were never good enough for me.  But the adoption thing is stupid.  We already have underdeveloped unnecessary marriages in Skyrim and now we have unnecessary and probably underdeveloped children features.  But the house thing is good enough for me and you can ignore the adoption (and marriage) thing.

As for them charging for the dlc, it's just economics.  One might say Bethesda is greedy for charging money for dlc.  Another would say their economic department is doing a great job taking care of the company.  Money's gotta come from somewhere.  There wouldn't be a motivation for a business to run on the bare minimum (releasing the game for a fair price and all the dlc for free).  Or think about how much better bethesda could do with more employees that they could only hire because they made more money.  I'd say its the same with any other business.  

And frankly, the console people aren't being punished in any way for additional features.  I just don't get that.  They don't have any reason to feel forced into paying.  You could make the argument that they have to pay to get the features PC gamers can mod.  And if they stole modder's ideas, I don't really have a problem with that either.  If you were going to make a DLC and you saw right in front of you that the top mods were dealing with adoption and building your own home, I'm sure you'd make the same call.  The alternative would be making DLC no one cares about to avoid stealing ideas from modders.

My point isn't to convince you towards my economic theories.  I'd just like to point out that it's businesses in general you should be complaining about.  Sure, a video game company's 'greed' is more apparent than gas station prices, but they're both doing the same thing.  So I can't really blame Bethesda for the way businesses work today.

[Elaura]

Technically, it isn't the business that deserves the blame, if blame is to be assigned, regardless.  Any economy in a free society is consumer driven, which is why threads like this do matter.  If a good idea is given enough support, or a bad idea gets enough bad press on the consumer level, it can change how a company does business.

Two examples:  Mass Effect and Diablo

Bioware:  Consumer base is furious over ME3 ending.  Bioware releases alternate endings with bonus content FOR FREE.  Majority of consumers are appeased and will buy from Bioware again.
Blizzard:  Consumer base furious over online requirement in single player.  Blizzard says "screw you" and continues to ban people from their servers for using mods in single player.  Many consumers (like me and Jac) swear we will never buy another Blizzard game while this policy is in effect.

Bethesda: Hmm, home and hearth mods are extremely popular.  How can we bring this to consoles?  Bethesda creates new DLC and charges for it.  How consumers will react remains to be seen.

My opinion is that the people who play Skyrim on console are probably not the ones who are insterested in Home and Hearth mods to begin with.  A good strategy with a poor understanding of their consumer base.

[Wolf undefined]

I find it quite entertaining that 50 seconds in they showed how the display cases clipped with the frost troll skull,  "Hey we got a glitch, lets showcase it in our trailer".  Not that they can fix it, but you'd think they would avoid showcasing it.

[Jac Making my way back]

I think Bethesda was smart in only charging $5 USD, but I wouldn't buy the DLC if we had Skyrim because I could get better from the community most likely. We'll see how well this does though.

[Illuminiel]

Well I'm going to get it for 360 - I can't get mods for the 360 but I am a sucker for DLC so will pay the price of admission to get it - at least with DLC I don't have to worry about load order or conflicts or spend hours agonizing over which one to get - basically it is pay and play - set and forget.

In my house we have Skyrim for PS3, PC and now 360 - I gave up on my PC version as I just can't cope with Steam

It looks like a solid house mod - even better that you get to build it yourself - though I would have liked to see it expanded into more of a build your own town mod - having additional shops, homes and guards would be good

If Beth start seeing some of the more popular mods and putting them into the game for consoles then I'd be happy with that - give me new choices for crafting - some new perk branches (unarmoured would be good!) Give me more dialogue options with Lydia - please let me thank her for saving my life Bethesda!!! And for pity's sake give me a the chance to give her a friendship hug occasionally - the amount of conversation role-playing I have to do in my head with her makes me feel I am back in Morrowind.

Still I guess I am saying I am all for DLC for the consoles - I don't care that I have to pay for it - after all it is my choice whether to dress my horse up or not

[sassman]

I think the point Maiq is trying to make is that Bethesda is now charging console users for what modders do on PC for free.

Actually, I think the point WAS that Bethesda is now making a profit on material they didn't CREATE, do not OWN, and probably did not get permission to USE except through the Steam "User Licencing Agreement" that every single player is forced into in order to upload and/or download through Steam in the first place!  It's like saying, "Yeah, you can make anything for this game you want, AS LONG AS WE GET TO KEEP IT AND PROFIT FROM IT."

[Wolf undefined]

I think the point Maiq is trying to make is that Bethesda is now charging console users for what modders do on PC for free.

Actually, I think the point WAS that Bethesda is now making a profit on material they didn't CREATE, do not OWN, and probably did not get permission to USE except through the Steam "User Licencing Agreement" that every single player is forced into in order to upload and/or download through Steam in the first place!  It's like saying, "Yeah, you can make anything for this game you want, AS LONG AS WE GET TO KEEP IT AND PROFIT FROM IT."

I don't see any evidence that bethesda took a mod without the permission of the author and put it up forpay (phone wont let me put a space there).  The theory that bethesda has that right is actually false. It would be illegal for bethesda to take a mod and charge money for it, unless the terms of use for the ck has changed since morrowind.

[silver_fox_rival undefined]

I don't see any evidence that bethesda took a mod without the permission of the author and put it up forpay (phone wont let me put a space there).  The theory that bethesda has that right is actually false. It would be illegal for bethesda to take a mod and charge money for it, unless the terms of use for the ck has changed since morrowind.

I agree.

[sassman]

.....unless the terms of use for the ck has changed since morrowind.

It probably has.  But more to the point, even the EULA for Morrowind makes it expressly clear that they can give themselves rights to your work within a certain scope.  The fact that they created the models, textures, game engine, etc., means that they "own" whatever is created with them.  Legally, they do not HAVE to get a modder's permission to use -OR- resell our mods, because they already OWN what we used to make them.  And even with custom textures and Blender, it would be very hard to prove in court that a Morrowind modder did not use at least SOME PART of Bethesda's "Intellectual Property"...ergo, they have an implied licence to profit from anything we make publicly available.

But even beyond Skyrim's EULA, STEAM has it's own, probably even MORE restrictive EULA.  And any site on the Internet (including many I have seen--and refused to participate with BECAUSE of this) can include "Provisions" giving the site owners UNCONDITIONAL LICENSE to use ANYTHING YOU PUT THERE in any way they choose.  In other words, any post (text), any image, any music or sound, any video, etc. becomes the "PROPERTY!" of the site operators!  No, I'M SERIOUS!  You-Tube includes this kind of language!  Their use of our videos to make a profit from advertising revenue would be IMPOSSIBLE if they did not force their users to GIVE AWAY OUR RIGHTS to control how this material is used.

Whether or not Bethesda CHOOSES to notify, and/or compensate the Skyrim modders for their handywork, they absolutely have no legal responsibility to do so!  Strong Copyright, of the type that Bethesda and other mod-able game companies use to protect themselves from us inevitably deprives us of any legal recourse, should the parent company decide to take our work and resell it for profit.  NONE!

And that's the bitter truth of the Computer Game Industry entire.

My hat's off to Bethesda, if they are choosing to play strait with the members their modding community.  But I don't actually know that they ARE playing strait.  All I know for sure is...that legally, THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

SASS has Spoken.

[Wolf undefined]

Well I just started playing Skyrim again (yay) and I really wish this was already out.  I'm so bored of all the vanilla houses, and I don't want to get a mod that adds customizable houses if Beth will be doing it themselves shortly.  Ah well, still got Dawnguard to play with.

[Illuminiel]

Got Hearthfire today - the best thing about it is Lydia now has different options when I ask her to Trade Items with me - what a pleasant surprise

While I haven't purchased the plot of ground yet - I did notice that mining Clay gives you an unlimited amount - not sure if that is a bug or not

Anyway not having to hear "I am sworn to carry your burdens" made it all worth while

[Wolf undefined]

Got Hearthfire today - the best thing about it is Lydia now has different options when I ask her to Trade Items with me - what a pleasant surprise

While I haven't purchased the plot of ground yet - I did notice that mining Clay gives you an unlimited amount - not sure if that is a bug or not

Anyway not having to hear "I am sworn to carry your burdens" made it all worth while

Hmm, well let me know how it goes.  This is one of my 'maybe dlc', so I'd like some input before I grab it (when it comes out for PC).