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Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:02 pm
by Panzer Dakkan
Hey dudes, im trying to completely bludgeon the face of vanilla morrowind while still holding true to the lore of the world...

Basically im looking for every single mod that can add something new to the game without it coming out as unrealistic or environment damaging. Meaning that I want to make the game as full as possible with as much immersion as possible.

For example, armor and clothing are really only limited to the materials available in the world. The ashlanders make all manner of equipment out of chitin and netch leather, so why stop there? What about the shalks and other creatures that roam the environment? Why no slaughter fish stuff? In essence the only real limit to armor weapons and other equipment is the material logic and the culture that made it. For example imperials are very Roman in nature so everything they do should have a Roman feel, and nothing else. You wouldnt expect Romans to have Chinese stuff or Nords (Vikings) to have Arabian stuff. Its all about the logic/Lore of the world that were dealing with.

Then you have skills, I was inspired by Skyrim with the crafting options and all the mods that were added to enhance it, I cant see a reason why the player should not be able to harvest/recycle materials to produce your own stuff. I have seen a 'crafting' mod before, and it was extremely complex and, well, tedious... The skills were to hard to train and the equipment to do stuff was to hard to find and produce... I think the ideal mod for this would be one that uses the Armorer Skill as the basis of all crafting and such, that would make the game much more enjoyable.

This is where my bias comes in, I am by nature the 'Ranger' type player, I love living off the land, hunting, foraging for materials, using stealth and range as my primary fighting skills. Something else that I saw in Skyrim mods which im not entirely sure which one it came from, was this exactly, I think it was 'hunterborn' but I cant be exactly sure. When you kill an animal you have the options to kill the pelts, harvest ingredients (usually anything not hide or meat) and butcher meat. Then I discovered a skill that you can 'forage' stuff from the environment so that, if you didnt have food, water, this that or the other, you could still have a chance of getting it without having to directly find it in the environment. Stuff like edible plants if your in the forest, which you wont find in the snow, and logical regional alchemy ingredients.


Then you have NPCs, at the moment im looking at starfires NPCs, which looks like a neat little addition. I wont endorse MCA purely because the stuff added by it is not lore accurate... The face and hair replacers added (and required) by MCA are not culturally accurate, all that Manga looking perfectly straight hair and stuff like that has really broken the experience for me in the past, as well as no level logic which is the next thing I want to address. Common bandits and thugs should be by nature, poor, which is why they became bandits and thugs to begin with. So it is only logical that they should have lower level equipment regardless of what the placers level is... I remember one time I added MCA to a game where i was already very accomplished and I was finding common thugs and gangs in towns with glass ebony and deadric equipment... How does that make sense? We all have to either labor for the majority of the game to get stuff like that, or pay through the nose at select merchants, so why should a bum mugging you for your last Septim have it? I mean if you had a sword worth 10k why would you try to mug someone? why not just sell it and live fat and happy for years?

Logic is a big deal for what I have in mind so it needs to be the centerpiece of this project...

Then theres graphics, At the moment im using MGE, which seems to really tax my system, I dont know why, considering that I can run Skyrim perfectly smooth on my system yet I cant run this? I managed to cut it down enough where the game runs pretty smooth while still getting a good boost out of it, so for the moment I think its workable... What I really want for graphics is for the game to really seem alive... So much of the map looks like, well, a map... Every square foot of the ground should be subject to ecology, the only places that shouldnt have something growing on it are rocks, ashlands (not enough water) or places like roads and paths where the ground is to beaten for something to grow. It also doesnt make sense that there are large dead trees in the ashlands and have nothing else growing at all, I mean how did those trees live long enough to get so big if nothing could grow there at all?

Beyond the environment itself armor and weapons dont really look all that great. I have seen some mods where metal glimmers and fur/leather actually looks real. aside from adding new stuff I think everything should have a texture/mesh replacement just to give the game a more rich feeling given that it has been over ten years since the game came out and people have had all that time to tinker so I think it should all exist already...

Wildlife is another thing, which directly links back to what I was talking about with hunting and stuff like that. The game simply feels empty because all you find are adult animals in few numbers and no nests, no dens, no nothing to actually show that animals in fact live in this environment. I feel that its important for juvenile and infant animals to exist in the world to give it a more realistic feeling. Now that im talking about that it reminds me, about hunting, and thus the need to eat drink and sleep. I know there are a number of mods out there that do that but again, lore and logic need to apply. For example NOM has 'imports' fruits such as apples tomatoes and lemons, which are not found in morrowind, these kinds of items should be far less abondant and more expensive than something grown locally. I recall seeing that the majority of the foods added by NOM were very western in nature, meaning pies and drinks ans such that really are not cultural for morrowind, even with the excuse of imperial occupation, the dominant culture is still Dumner, so having stuff like this one restaurant outside of Vivec that felt nothing like the local culture just ruins the immersive value of the game... If anything the places where the foods are sold should be the inns and taverns that already exist in the towns and the general traders as well. Then imports should be more common in imperial/port towns, while inland/dunmer towns should be more local with only very few imports.

Im about out of things to talk about, im sure other things will come to mind later on... Feel free to suggest stuff that you feel fit into this. I feel that this could be a huge boost to the community if not just my own dream come true...  :twothumbs:

MMH looks like a great repository for stuff but honestly when I go to look for something specific my eyes glaze over because it could fix into any number of the categories listed and there are literally thousands of files so if this could be a community effort it would really be appreciated...

Thanks everybody...

Re: Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:49 pm
by Crankgorilla
I think you should try to make one mod before trying to make every mod.

This post is hilarious. :floorlaugh:

Re: Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:57 pm
by Panzer Dakkan
You do realize that there is such a thing as 'more than one' in the modding universe...

Just because I make a vast image of what I want doesnt mean that I want it all in one piece...

Do you think you could be just a little less snide?

Re: Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:39 pm
by Crankgorilla
Panzer Dakkan wrote:You do realize that there is such a thing as 'more than one' in the modding universe...

Just because I make a vast image of what I want doesnt mean that I want it all in one piece...

Do you think you could be just a little less snide?


Yes. I suppose you're right. There are some good ideas here and I hope you succeed in getting them going. All the best, good luck!  :whip:

Re: Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:50 am
by Jac
I would try MGE XE instead of MGE because it's still being developed and not as taxing on the system. You *should* be able to just install it over an existing MGE installation, but read the readme first.

Re: Big Dam Game Overhaul Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:25 pm
by Lokichan
If I were you, I would find something Rangery to make a mod about and try from there :) A lot of people like ranger feeling mods, myself included, but I have a bone to pick with one of your statements. I'm not mad, or being aggressive, but sense you want to base your project on logic I need to point this out.


"For example, armor and clothing are really only limited to the materials available in the world. The ashlanders make all manner of equipment out of chitin and netch leather, so why stop there? What about the shalks and other creatures that roam the environment? Why no slaughter fish stuff? In essence the only real limit to armor weapons and other equipment is the material logic and the culture that made it. For example imperials are very Roman in nature so everything they do should have a Roman feel, and nothing else. You wouldn't expect Romans to have Chinese stuff or Nords (Vikings) to have Arabian stuff. Its all about the logic/Lore of the world that were dealing with."

Side note - There are mods that are covering the whole silt strider, shalk, making armor out of such materials, I have included most of them in my mod Dress Up My Morrowind.

On with my bone - I would like to point out that logically and realistically speaking Morrowind is RIGHT next door to Cyrodiil. As such there would be imported goods, clothing, fruit, etc coming in all the time. I find that Bethesda dropped the ball on realism because it ignored geography, trade, and further diversity of goods in this fashion. This is precisely what keeps empires functioning, and although their goal was to create an alien environment (beautifully done) it suffered from its lack of logic in these areas. Morrowind is not a remote place...despite what the game might want you to think. ;)

...Imperials may have a romanish feel...only because they have some roman sounding names, have multiple gods, and are white... but certainly do not need to stay in "Roman fashion" study the games from Arena to Skyrim and you will see a vast cultural and wardrobe variation. In daggerfall half the priestesses didn't wear tops lol...and the fashion actually took a jump backwards from the late 1600's early 1700's peasant feel with fantasy influence of Daggerfall and Redguard to the early 1300's -1400's medieval European feel in Oblivion.  Also for the record the Romans adopted other cultures nuances and ornamentation all the time, using bits from the Spartans, to the Persians and Arabs, Egyptians and Ethiopians. The vikings invaded as far east as the Port of Macau in china, and it wouldn't be surprising at all to find an asian or arabian peice here and there in a Norse collection...especially since the silk road was well in use throughout areas they raided, and the Swedish vikings traded on the Silk road. Rome also traded with China, though it was limited because China kind of looked down on the Roman Empire ....it considered Rome a western land ruled by "minor kings" - Weil├╝e 3rd century.

As holy as some people would like to make it...there are huge flaws in Lore lore lore... since lore can't stand up on its own.
Why is one of the most venerated of the Nine someone who apparently ascended to godhood even after he had a underage relationship with a dark elf and forced her, quite literally, to abort her child for sheer political reasons and never sought her again. This guy was supposed to be holy enough to become a god??? In Daggerfall he is painted as a real BLEEP...Yet Skyrim turns him into this super hero and suddenly we get stories about High Hrothgar and all of those things left out in earlier games because...they didn't exist until someone wrote that plot.
And we went from mostly naked dancing priestesses in Daggerfall to robed "monks" in monasteries...lol the first version made a lot more sense given the character of the gods. But some people put their nose up at Illuminel's OMG mod, even though its more "Lore" than what team Bethesda did with Morrowind XD In that way the nine have some Greek/Roman flare but not limited to those styles.
Another example...Why do arena khajiit have a cat nose but no ears, fur or tail? Why do Daggerfall Khajiit have a tail but no fur, cat ears and no cat nose XD
Why did levitation not exist in OB (I think Skyrim too, I don't remember) but in Daggerfall and Morrowind it was common place.
It wasn't because of lore..it was because they changed game mechanics, and yay now they can make cat cat people. Though someone wrote a book somewhere in one of the games that talks about "tribes" of types of Khajiit...and why don't we see any of these "rare" humanish khajiit anymore? XD
The real truth is that there is no true cohesion between the games. They always add things that weren't there before, they always mess something up, and they tend to ignore the best parts of whatever game they made last. There is no "Lore" because the concept changes game to game within its own region.

Its all a mess. My advice is, start small, and if you go through this overhaul don't attach yourself too much to lore or history, because neither truly apply here.

Good luck with your ranger stuff, I hope you keep trying to mod :)