Page 1 of 1

Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:34 am
by Lady Godiva
I love this mod to the point of burning corpses that I've already cleaned out anyway. Discovered a minor drawback. If you go to a dungeon/location that you haven't had a quest triggered for yet and kill someone (who you're probably meant to kill later) the game sometimes won't let you dispose of the corpse. You can always burn the corpse though and you will never know the game didn't mean for that corpse to be gone. An example of this is inside Amibiberinunubu or whatever (forget name, Daedric ruin not too far from Hla Oad, I think, or the other ruin nearby around the coast a little bit. Inside is an Imperial guard being kept prisoner by 2 orcs. In my game one Orc is a Healer. Not sure if that's the "Healers" mod I have added. I thought there were no healers in the original game but this one is part of a quest that seems original and he doesn't give any healing. (I could only talk to him by using console to stop the fight as he attacks on sight. That's when he says he's a healer). If I don't kill him (he has a key on him) but cheat to stop the fight & then either pick his pocket or pick the door lock, I find the imperial guard. He tells me that I have to kill his captors to free him because they have a curse spell binding him. If I kill the orc and go back, he thanks me and says he can go his own way now. If I kill the healer orc (other orc doesn't matter) and try to dispose of the corpse, nothing happens and a msg comes saying can't get rid of it. If I BURN the corpse, when I go to free the guard, I get a bunch of error msgs saying his dialogue is broken. I imagine this could happen other places. It's very hard to not burn everyone though :P

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:21 pm
by Skeli
lol i just found that out yesterday and you beat me to the topic dammit :P

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:59 am
by Fliggerty
This should work just fine with any NPC in the game, regardless of quest status.  There is no way possible for the scripts to know if an NPC is still required for a quest short of hard-coding every quest and NPC.  So the problem has to do with something else.

What would be helpful is if you would post the exact warnings you got.

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:21 am
by Skeli
Fliggerty wrote:This should work just fine with any NPC in the game, regardless of quest status.  There is no way possible for the scripts to know if an NPC is still required for a quest short of hard-coding every quest and NPC.  So the problem has to do with something else.

What would be helpful is if you would post the exact warnings you got.


I also found out you can burn things which actually aren't dead npc's, don't know if that was intended but I burnt a door off a building and got 3 ash piles for it  :lol:

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:42 am
by Lady Godiva
Fliggerty wrote:This should work just fine with any NPC in the game, regardless of quest status.  There is no way possible for the scripts to know if an NPC is still required for a quest short of hard-coding every quest and NPC.  So the problem has to do with something else.

What would be helpful is if you would post the exact warnings you got.


I can't remember off the top of my head what the exact warnings were but they were a bunch of dialogue errors. It said there were problems with the guy's dialogue. He would still say the dialogue, but only over the top of my inventory screen (which it shouldn't do). So I'm worried a future quest won't 'update' correctly later. It could be nothing in that case, hence why I said 'minor' problem. I've since noticed that mostly, the only corpses you can't get rid of normally are perma corpses so perhaps my healers mod had mixed up a perma corpse with a healer and turned it into a jailor since there were meant to be jailors in that room. That would mean your mod only conflicts there if the healers mod changed something it shouldn't have. Apologies if I'm wrong.

The other thing is you can burn anything, from urns to perma corpses. That might not be a problem, I'd need you to tell me, though. Here's the thing. This is my first time playing this game so I'm not sure of how it works, especially since it's quite old and was 'revolutionary' in it's day for the non linear quest format. I'm not sure how well they succeeded with the non-linear part yet. At the start, an NPC rumor to get rid of smugglers in a cave by the stilt rider, so I did. Then I decided to walk to Balmora via Bitter Coast and found many more slave smuggler caves. I haven't even been to Balmora yet, but I've found Hlaroran which has lots of slaves to be freed and also these 'index' teleporters. I found a propylon index that made one teleporter work. Inside a room at the place I was tp'ed to, I found a bunch of dead redoran house guards. I could not dispose of those bodies by normal method, even though they had a lot of inventory items to take. I'm worried that I've already damaged a quest (if Bethesda didn't consider the possibibly people might explore areas before receiving a trigger to go there). If I haven't damaged it, I wonder if BURNING the bodies is going to damage the quest. I presume later I'll be told to go look for some missing redoran guards. Should either me playing some things early or making the perma-bodies go , be likely to break quests?

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:44 pm
by Fliggerty
Perhaps you could recreate the error and copy the errors from warnings.txt?  Without knowing exactly what the errors said, I have no way to know what type of problem I am looking for.

I really don't see how burning a corpse such as that would break a quest, unless there's something in the engine that we don't know about.  I suppose it's possible that there is something like that which explains why Bethesda made the "corpses persist" option in the first place.  The only thing I could think of though is that perhaps the engine won't recognize an NPC as dead unless the player killed them otherwise.  I simply do not know though; I suppose some testing is in order.

Try this small update.  It should filter reference type a bit better so nothing but a creature or NPC can be burned.

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:04 pm
by Lady Godiva
Thanks for the update, but the original issue was caused by an NPC, not a perma corpse. The thing is, the NPC kinda became a perma corpse after I killed him. I could not 'dispose of body, but that was different to some of the perma corpses. Given he listed his occupation as a healer, perhaps the healers mod is the issue. Interstingly, I can resurrect him, so it gets a bit confusing as to whether the dead version is a permacorpse or NPC.

Please don't think I've been criticising your mod in any way. I love it and use it like crazy. I just want to be sure that I'm not going to destroy vital quest links. What I encountered was probably a one off and even though the errors appeared saying dialogue was broken, the dialogue still went ahead. Hopefully, if it is related to a quest I stumbled into before having the initial trigger, no harm has been done (unless it was done by me meeting the guy too early anyway).

Can you break quests if you randomly explore everywhere before getting at least a rumour to go there? I haven't played MW through before. If you tell me there are no corpses that will ruin quests by being burned up (even perma corpses) then I won't worry and will just keep burning everyone haha.

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:17 pm
by Gnomey
You can break Morrowind quests, and more easily questlines, without realizing it. With the dead Redoran guards, you probably sold their unique shield(s?) which you were supposed to recover, IIRC. As for the burning error, the healer class has always been in Morrowind, though I hadn't realized that that NPC was a healer. I could check it up...

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:52 pm
by Skeli
Gnomey wrote:You can break Morrowind quests, and more easily questlines, without realizing it. With the dead Redoran guards, you probably sold their unique shield(s?) which you were supposed to recover, IIRC. As for the burning error, the healer class has always been in Morrowind, though I hadn't realized that that NPC was a healer. I could check it up...


Bingo  :bananacheer: Gnomey solves another puzzle

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:28 am
by Lady Godiva
It may be because I wasn't logged in yet, but I couldnt' see a quote option (and I'm new here).

THIS IS @ GNOMEY!

Noooo! I haven't sold their unique shields yet! Thank the Nine! I have a little cheat happening. I installed 'inventory helper' which lets you use a pack called 'pack of near-infinite holding. I have their shields safely in my pack still. Since all the merchants that I've come across have very little funds, little more than the 1000 drakes that the wonderful Fliggerty has let me invest in their stores, I only sell shite.

So... are you telling me that as long as I dont' sell any item that looks as if it could be quest related I'll be ok? Don't kill ppl who don't attack me first and don't sell unusual items, and I should be ok?

I'm level 24 now... and still haven't delivered the package to Cauis (spelling error I'm sure) in Balmora. I'm doing external stuff first, like Tamriel Rebuilt and Silgrad Tower plus the dungeons along Bitter Coast and Ascardian Isles. That may be a bad move unless the idea I supplied above is a safeguard.

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:30 am
by Lady Godiva
ahahahahha... I <3 this forum! I said ess hach eye tee ee to spell another word for the Irish pronunciation of faeces. Automatically it showed up as crap plus an e which makes it a french version of a pancake made with plain (as opposed to self raising) flour. Haha

Re: Gravedigger mod (be careful what you burn)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:16 am
by Dragon_Lance
:lol: